 |
Believe In America.com
|
| |
| Author |
Message |
iamme
Joined: 24 Jun 2006
Posts: 333
Location: TEXAS
|
 Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 5:46 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| butterbean wrote: | | Quote: | iamme:
In a sense, you are right. But that is why we protest, so that we can have our voices heard and hope that they can pass a bill or a law that is not so harsh. However, it is still unfair as many families have been unjustly seperated in the past, and their voices are being heard now. They want to be able to bring their families together, because the discrimination in the past has forced many to become seperated. Just because a country has the rights in regards to immigration doesn't mean that they can treat people inhumanely. They can, but we also have the right (in America) to protest against such treatment.
|
They entered the country illegally and they chose to be seperated from their families when they chose to commit a felony by sneaking over the border. This has nothing to do with discrimination. The simple fact is that these people came here without legal papers. In other words, they imposed themselves on us, and we dont have the means to support them. |
Butterbean, I already responded to this answer, even before you posted it. Don’t pick and pull on what is convenient to answer. Please read the posts accordingly before replying.
| Quote: | | America doesnt give illegal immigrants rights to protest anthing. |
Oh, butterbean, keep wishing on that. BAM!
“In the United States, like other liberal democracies, freedom of expression (including speech, media, AND PUBLIC ASSEMBLY) is seen as an important right and is given special protection.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_the_United_States
And before you say that that is reserved for Americans, read up on it. Civil rights are reserved for Americans, but Human Rights belong to ALL people.
| Quote: | | I will say iamme, that I have suspected you to be an illegal alien all along. You come up with quotes from websites you just surfed, and quotes from the Bible. But you really dont make any sense at all. |
It does not make sense to those that don’t want to make sense of it. Please explain where I do not make sense so that I can properly inform you as to what I mean. America does give illegal immigrants right to protest anything, it is called our Human Rights, the right to assemble, the freedom of speech, etc. Read up on it and let me know where I am wrong to believe so. Oh, and butterbean, your suspicions are dead wrong, one reason you shouldn’t use them to debate on anything. I am, have been, and always will be an American and sorry to break the news to you this way, but there is nothing you can do about it.
| Quote: | | As you can see, I dropped arguing with you a week or 2 ago. I just cant stand your holier than thou attitude. You act like an you know everything, when basically you know absolutely nothing. I think you are scared, because you are losing your battle. I really think you would be happier at another site. You claim you were never banned from any sites. I doubt that very much. As a matter of fact, some of the websites you mentioned would chew you up and spit you out. Please feel free to leave. Es Una lATIMA. Adios. |
Si, es una lastima, una lastima that you don’t have the guts to stay and continue the arguments. It is called cowardice better described as a hit and run. I’ve never acted like I know everything, just what I know, which I am sure is more than you know. Maybe that is why you are so scared to stick around and tough it out. I win this battle by staying in it, not pulling out just because it makes me dizzy. I have a better chance of accomplishing what I want because I face my opponents head on, where as you just hit and run, hit and run. You think I’ve been banned for sites, let me know which one you “suspect” and I can guarantee that you will see a post from me there today, tomorrow, whenever you decide to pull a hit and run to let me know your answer. Sorry butterbean, it takes a whole lot more than asking me to leave a forum which you do not own. If you have a problem with what I say or relate, the forum rules are up there for you to read, the door is open for you leave, and don’t let the door hit ya on the way out. Asta la vista, Chickaroo!
PS. In your words “I dropped arguing with you a week or 2 ago” so why start now if you can’t finish what your started? Very hypocritical, but hey, you’re welcome to hang around and participate, but PARTICIPATE, don’t just come in and toss a few insults and run away. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
|
|
tweety
Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 250
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 6:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| iamme wrote: | | tweety wrote: |
There isn't and shouldn't be exceptions for any group of people where felonies are involved. Why should there be? You think that would be fair? I haven't seen anything in our Constitution that says it is a basic human right for an illegal alien to march in our streets protesting. |
It is called the freedom of expression which includes speech, media, and public assembly (protest/marches). It's also called Human Rights for the people, or civil rights for Americans.
| Quote: | | Operation Wetback, here we go again with the past. It has nothing to do with the way Americans feel about legal Hispanics today. It is all about illegal aliens. You just don't get the difference, do you? Here comes that same old lie again too. We are not accusing peasant Mexicans coming here illegally to look for work as being terrorists! Would you all get that thru your thick skull? It is the OTM's from known terrorist countries coming in along with the Mexicans that we are afraid of. Got that yet? |
Tweety, I’m sorry to put it to you this way, but you’re falling back on the “it’s all about illegal aliens” excuse. Sorry, but you have never implied that much before, so why now? It has to do with Hispanics in general, legal and illegal, not just illegal aliens, or why else would you imply that Hispanics are trying to change America into a third world country? Why do you take such offense on the use of the Spanish language out in main stream? I’ve always spoken Spanish and I’m not an illegal alien. My grandparents and some of my relatives speak Spanish only, very, very limited English, and they are not illegal aliens. Operation Wetback might have nothing to do with the way American’s feel about legal Hispanics today, but the same thing is happening now as it did then. It all started with a fear of terrorist and wanting secure borders, to trying to enforce English only, to the deportation of Hispanics, legal and illegal. Remember the saying “If we don’t learn from the past then we are doomed to repeat it”? It’s almost as if you want to repeat it by not recognizing it. In any event, it all resulted in more illegal immigration. Every attempt to secure the borders has always resulted in more illegal immigration. I don’t see the events of today leading to much but the same old same old.
| Quote: | | Again, illegal aliens ARE afforded basic human rights in this country. The thing is that you that you that are sympathetic towards them want them to have the same rights as citizens or their rights to go further than plain old basic human rights. That is just plain wrong! |
Like I said in another post to you, it’s been said before but the oppressed have always come out winning. There might be a battle to the end, but good ALWAYS overcomes evil. American’s have fought to afford African-Americans and women rights. American’s will fight to afford illegal immigrant rights. Today, you might be right that they have broken some laws, but tomorrow our voices will expunge the laws so that they recognize illegal immigrants as what they are, humans attempting to make a better life for themselves.
| Quote: | | Don't worry I will never find myself in their shoes. I respect every country's soveirgn right to have borders and immigration laws. If I were poor and destitute I would stay in my own country and fight to fix it. Most Mexicans are not starving in Mexico, they simply live in poverty and its their lack of courage to change anything that keeps them that way. |
I can only hope you are right as, like I said, I would never wish what I have gone through on anyone. I’m sure you would stay and fight, but for how long and to what expense? There are many Mexican’s in Mexico involved in deadly riots trying to fix their government. They are out there with machetes, and picks and axes, going against their own law enforcement officials who are better armed than they. How much do you think they can accomplish, when they are silenced with death? How can you alone, change a corrupt government that silences every hope with a bullet? I don’t know if you have children, but how much would you be willing to suffer the injustice that they might one day have to face in a corrupt government? Would you prefer to die defending a country that will cannot be saved any time soon, knowing that your children will be left behind to fend for themselves in a corrupt government, more than likely have to resort to selling drugs, prostitution, theft, etc.? I’ve heard reports, how true they are I would not know, but reports that state American’ are leaving cities because of the influx of illegal immigration. I wonder what they would do if each state had it’s own border, and it was illegal to cross those borders? Even you imply on a fear of America becoming a Spanish speaking country and fear the Hispanization we can bring. What would you do if it does end up being a Spanish speaking country? Even you stated that you would NEVER speak or attempt to learn Spanish. The very fact that Mexicans have risked their lives crossing the border shows not only how courageous they are, but how smart they are as well. They have a better chance of making a better life for themselves crossing the border than they would standing up to a corrupt government in Mexico. |
I have always stated that I am not against legal Hispanics but illegal aliens. Why are you reading stuff into my posts that are not there? Because I think that all immigrants should assimilate to our language and culture is to be against Hispanics? What sort of reasoning are you using? I have never said that legal Hispanics are changing this country into a third world country but if you have ILLEGAL ALIENS who are poor and lack and education pouring over our border then in time we will become a third world country. The Middle Class will not exist anymore and thats what makes a third world country. Why do you keep making this a legal Hispanic issue?
No one is trying to enforce "English ony", we just want it to be our official langauge and that will not stop people from speaking another langauge. What is wrong with you? I think it makes for a more harmonious society if we do try to speak one common language when we are around each other but so what? No one is saying that you can't!
You are wrong, we have never seriously tried to secure our borders. Never! Thats what needs to happen. It can be done and should be done and for two reasons, to stop the flow of illegal aliens and to stop terrorists from entering on foot too. Excuse me, but no one is trying to deport legal Hispanics these days. Illegal aliens from anywhere should be deported according to our laws.
You are nuts calling people who enter our country oppressed instead of what they are according to our laws. Oppressed people can come here legally, these people chose not too! There are many oppressed in the world, should we let them all in or just the Mexicans? How dare you compare the civil rights era of the Blacks, WHO WERE CITIZENS, to the illegal aliens in our midst right now. It is not good to make a better life for yourself while making life more difficult for others and that is what they are doing. You call this good? Who and what is this EVIL you are referring too?
I told you before iamme, I think we have come to and end in our discussions for the following reasons:
You and yours continally keep calling law abiding citizens names such as racist, anti-Mexican/Hispanics, which is totally false.
You and yours are favoring illegal foreigners just because they are ethnically like you, rather than standing up for the laws of this country and your fellow American citizens.
Any attempt at asking Hispanic immigrants to assimilate to our language and culture just like the immigrants of old did is considered racist by you and yours.
You don't really want border security, you just want the flow of illegals to keep coming, therefore the terrorists will just keep coming in right with these illegals too.
You and yours care nothing about the uncontrolled population growth that these illegals are causing and all of the negatives effects on our soical infrastructures, and the increase in taxes that is is costing your fellow American citizens.
You and yours constantly lie, distort the truth and pull the race card and refuse to be obey the laws of this country.
You hang out with ethncially driven, traitorous, Nazis and that says it all to me. I have had enough of your BS and its all I can stand anymore.
Don't bother to respond. I will be even more active in ending this illegal alien crisis we have in this country now and those terrorist foot soldiers that are coming right in with them. Come the legal way, or GET THE HELL OUT! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
butterbean
Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 2271
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 8:34 am Post subject: |
|
|
| tweety wrote: | Butterbean, just to clarify something for you. It is not a felony to cross our borders illegally, it is only a misdemeanor. Although I think it should be a felony.
The thing is that many of these illegals after committing that first misdemeanor, then go on to committing the felony of forging documents, and stealing ID's and SS numbers and income tax evasion once here.
Some commit even more serious crimes once here but I would believe that most do not.
The thing is we have enough of our own criminals to deal with, we sure don't need to import more, especially those who shouldn't even be here in the first place. |
 Thank you tweety. I realized my mistake by calling illegal entry a felony. It should be. Then maybe we wouldnt have all the gang rapes, murders, and robberies we have now. The crime wave has really spiraled since 1986, which was a big amnesty mistake by Reagan.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
butterbean
Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 2271
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 9:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
 There you go, pulling things out of dictionaries again.
Agreed. Human rights are one thing, but illegal immigrants have zero rights under the US Constitution or the Bill of Rights. Illegal aliens have NO rights to assemble and be heard (protest), and NO rights to drive or work here because GET IT, THEY ARE HERE ILLEGALLY! Why on earth should we even tolerate them! I honestly believe that illegal immigrants think we should treat them as welcomed guests. Haha!
I think they have some warped feeling, that because they have illegally worked and lived here for a period of time, that they have earned special rights. Haha!
| Quote: |
It is called cowardice better described as a hit and run. I’ve never acted like I know everything, just what I know, which I am sure is more than you know. Maybe that is why you are so scared to stick around and tough it out. I win this battle by staying in it, not pulling out just because it makes me dizzy. I have a better chance of accomplishing what I want because I face my opponents head on, where as you just hit and run, hit and run. You think I’ve been banned for sites, let me know which one you “suspect” and I can guarantee that you will see a post from me there today, tomorrow, whenever you decide to pull a hit and run to let me know your answer. Sorry butterbean, it takes a whole lot more than asking me to leave a forum which you do not own. If you have a problem with what I say or relate, the forum rules are up there for you to read, the door is open for you leave, and don’t let the door hit ya on the way out. Asta la vista, Chickaroo!
PS. In your words “I dropped arguing with you a week or 2 ago” so why start now if you can’t finish what your started? Very hypocritical, but hey, you’re welcome to hang around and participate, but PARTICIPATE, don’t just come in and toss a few insults and run away. |
HIT & RUN? Isnt that what all the illegal aliens are doing? It happens all the time. Fake papers and driver's liscenses and driving while intoxicated.
Its not hit & run. And believe me, I am no coward. I try to avoid people like you that bring out the worst in me.
Iamme, it was you who mentioned other sites, such as alipac and matt, not me. Maybe it was directed at gringo, but you did mention them in one post, maybe more.
I really dont see any point of arguing with you anymore. I dont agree with most of what you have to say. You ramble on and on, and reference websites, books, dictionaries, and famous quotes, but you really dont have much to contribute, nor do I at this point. We are on different paths. I am ANTI Illegal Immigration, but PRO Legal Immigrant. But you seem to be PRO Illegal Immigration.
Tell me something iaamme. Which flag will you be waving at the Illegal Immigration March this September 5th? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tweety
Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 250
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 11:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
I am with you Butterbean. I have no desire to debate with iamme anymore. I thought because she is American citizen that she would would be able to see the error of her thinking of not putting Americans and America first. That we are a nation of laws, not lawlessness. And that illegal immigration is a drain on us big time in everyway. But as a typical Hispanic, they don't care about anyting but their ethnic brethern and it doesn't matter if they are foreign invaders either.
Viva La Raza = Everything for the race, nothing for those outside the race. I fear for the future of this country if it truly does become majority Hispanic with their "me" attitudes and lack of respect for the laws of this country and anyone else who isn't Hispanic.
They lie, distort the truth, make false accusations of Americans who oppose illegal immigration, twist the truth around and ignore the facts, pull the race card and have absolutely no common sense at all. All hidden under a cloak of racism on their part, not ours. I have no desire to debate with traitors and liars. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tweety
Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 250
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 11:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
[quote="tweety"]I am with you Butterbean. I have no desire to debate with iamme anymore. I thought because she is American citizen that she would would be able to see the error of her thinking of not putting Americans and America first. That we are a nation of laws, not lawlessness. And that illegal immigration is a drain on us big time in everyway. But as a typical Hispanic, they don't care about anyting but their ethnic brethern and it doesn't matter if they are foreign invaders either.
Viva La Raza = Everything for the race, nothing for those outside the race. I fear for the future of this country if it truly does become majority Hispanic with their "me" attitudes and lack of respect for the laws of this country and anyone else who isn't Hispanic.
They lie, distort the truth, make false accusations of Americans who oppose illegal immigration, twist the truth around and ignore the facts, pull the race card and have absolutely no common sense at all. All hidden under a cloak of racism on their part, not ours. I have no desire to debate with traitors, liars and racists.
The traitors think they will win this war? LOL. Everyday more and more real Americans are becoming active in stopping this nonsense. Everyday the traitors have fewer and fewer that support them. We will take our country back and this will never be allowed to happen again! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
iamme
Joined: 24 Jun 2006
Posts: 333
Location: TEXAS
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 7:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| butterbean wrote: |
There you go, pulling things out of dictionaries again. |
Got a problem with that? It's not much different than what you do, pulling things out of the web. If you don't like what I'm doing, then stop doing it yourself and then talk.
| Quote: | Agreed. Human rights are one thing, but illegal immigrants have zero rights under the US Constitution or the Bill of Rights. Illegal aliens have NO rights to assemble and be heard (protest), and NO rights to drive or work here because GET IT, THEY ARE HERE ILLEGALLY! Why on earth should we even tolerate them! I honestly believe that illegal immigrants think we should treat them as welcomed guests. Haha!
I think they have some warped feeling, that because they have illegally worked and lived here for a period of time, that they have earned special rights. Haha! |
Man o man, what country do you live in that you do not know your own Constitution or Bill of Rights? Undocumented foreigners are protected by these, as they are people and not aliens, humans and not illegals. See, that's why I have to post these links up so you can understand. Just for the sake of it again, here are the quotes from the constitution and the bill of rights:
US Constitution Bill of Rights:
"Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. "
http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.billofrights.html#amendmenti
| Quote: |
HIT & RUN? Isnt that what all the illegal aliens are doing? It happens all the time. Fake papers and driver's liscenses and driving while intoxicated. |
Nah, or else they wouldn't still be here protesting. Fake papers are understandably needed for work, which is why we need to help make it easier for those who want to come to america be able to do so in an easier fashion. Driver's licenses cannot be obtained without an eligible SS number, so undocumented immigrants can't get one. Which means they can't get insurance either. So this is of our own doing, and not of the undocumented immigrants. If they were able to get a license, they'd be able to get insurance and be able to secure an accident. It's ridiculous to blame them for not being able to obtain a drivers license. As for intoxication, well, there is no study to verify that that I'm aware of and if there is one, I'd like to see it. I'm sure there are DUI's caused by undocumented foreigners, just like there are DUI's for American's.
| Quote: | Its not hit & run. And believe me, I am no coward. I try to avoid people like you that bring out the worst in me.
Iamme, it was you who mentioned other sites, such as alipac and matt, not me. Maybe it was directed at gringo, but you did mention them in one post, maybe more. |
Uy, coo cuy, yeah, I mentioned other sites to someone else, but it doesn't clarify why you say I was banned. I'll save us both the trouble, some of these forums I just visit to read and have never posted on them although I have registered on some.
| Quote: | I really dont see any point of arguing with you anymore. I dont agree with most of what you have to say. You ramble on and on, and reference websites, books, dictionaries, and famous quotes, but you really dont have much to contribute, nor do I at this point. We are on different paths. I am ANTI Illegal Immigration, but PRO Legal Immigrant. But you seem to be PRO Illegal Immigration.
Tell me something iaamme. Which flag will you be waving at the Illegal Immigration March this September 5th? |
No, pro illegal immigration is saying that I want it to be legal to come here illegally. That's ridiculous. I am for coming here legally, but I'm sorry, I have to defend those that are here undocumented now because from MY experiences with my husband and from what I've heard from other's as well, it is very difficult to come here legally if one does not meet the income guidelines. Most of the immigration laws leave no option to the poor immigrants, that they prefer to stay here undocumented than to return back to their country of origin and then risk having to come again undocumented when the need arises. For example, the flaw with the Temporary Work Visa is that holders cannot go visit their country of origin because it is considered self-deportation, even if there is a death in the family. Also, because many have families that they leave behind, they fear that the absence will dissolve the family, so they prefer to set it up to where the family can come undocumented. In order to obtain a TW visa, some one has to be willing to hire you. Now tell me, how can a poor foreigner obtain employment in America if they cannot come here first? So they come to look for work as undocumented immigrants, then fear going back when they cannot find employment because then they would have to risk the border crossing. Believe me, I've heard it said before, many undocumented foreigners would prefer to go back to their country of origin if they didn't have to risk the crossing again. Especially here in the border towns of Texas. Many cross the river on a daily basis, to work here and but they live in mexico. Some just stay here, but express their wishes on being able to go home. There are many issues, many you would not understand because you've never had the experience of the undocumented immigrant. Good for you, but don't blame me for defending what I think should be fair. On the 5th, I'll be flying the American and the Mexican flag together. One represents my country, the other my husbands. Is there a problem with that, or are you going to cry "un-patriotic"? [/quote] |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
inamericasince 1700
Joined: 12 Jun 2006
Posts: 155
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 11:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Tweety wrote: | Quote: | | What an "F"ing, hopeless moron! |
Hi Guys,
I told her off many times when this forum began.
She's not a retard, she's really smart and likes playing games with people. She's a manipulative sociopath with severe narcisistic tendancies. She's also a pathelogical liar. She lies to get people riled up and angry and loves it when it happens. Then when you get close to shutting her down she apologizes, just like an abusive mate, because her need to manipulate is greater than her need to be mentally well.
She's probably one of the most racist people I've every encountered. Right up there with the KKK and Hitler. You just have to wade through her lies and deceptions to see it.
All her bull about being American amounts to nothing. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
butterbean
Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 2271
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 10:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
inamericasince 1700,
iamme isn't worth the time. I agree w/tweety. She is a "F"ing, hopless moron!" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
