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tweety
Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 250
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 Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Again you forget the ten commandments. Thou shalt not lie, thou shalt not steal which is exactly what these illegals have done. Illegals are given basic human rights and that is all they are entitled to by God and by this country. |
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iamme
Joined: 24 Jun 2006
Posts: 333
Location: TEXAS
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| Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Patriot wrote: | In the old testament verses you quote, you need to remember that God never told Israel to accept strangers who were not going to assimilate or convert to Judaism. Pagans were never allowed to continue to worship their false gods while living in Israel. They were to accept God as the one true God and have no other gods before him. God judged israel many times because of allowing strangers to influence them to worship false gods instead of Israel influencing them to worship the one true God. He did that by bringing them into captivity. In other words he took away their land.
A stranger passing through and a stranger moving in to stay are two different things I would think. If I get time Ill look into that more closely.
The Philistines did not come into downtown Jerusalem and start waving the Philistine flag. That is a sign of conquest and would have brought down the wrath of the Armies of Israel upon them.
A central theme in the old testament outside of the promise of a Savior is that Israel will inherit the land that is given to them by God. It doesnt belong to Egypt, Syria etc. It was given to Israel by God. The book of 1 kings mentions the borders of the land that King Solomon was ruler over, agian showing borders are important.
Land and borders were very important in the old testament. It was your lively hood. They also had walls around cities back then to keep out the enemy and let in only who they felt was not a threat. Jerusalem is still walled today.
Concerning America I would like to remind you that we send out the most Christian missionaries in the world. The Church I currently am a member of and the one I was previously a member of before I moved support missionaries to Mexico and beyond. These missionary families bring them the gospel of Jesus Christ so that they may be saved from their sin as well as help these people escape their poverty. They help them where they are because they have a love for them that God has put in their heart. Many Americans do have compassion on the third world poor and show it by their actions and giving of finances. But that does not mean that we wish to absorb the masses of the third world. How can we help them, if this nation is over run by them.
Americans dont mind immigrants who come here legally and work to become Americans. Thats not a lot to ask. Also Romans chapter 13 applies to the immigrant as well. This Government has laws that govern this land and they are instructed by that verse to obey them. In other words they are commanded to enter this country the right way.
Patriot |
Patriot, I have not thanked you enough either for defending my rights to free speech. I am glad to hear from you.
When our founding fathers established America, they did it based on Christian principles and most of the laws we have today are based on the teachings of the Bible. The only assimilation that was asked of, by our founding fathers, was that foreigners who wanted to come to live in America respect that this country was predominantly Christian and that we lived by the Christian principles. They were free to worship whichever religion they wanted, but they had to abide by ours as well. In short, they were to become bi-religious, with Christianity being dominant. The pledge of allegiance is a good example of foreigners not assimilating into our country. "God" needs to stay in the pledge because that was what our founding fathers had stated, respect this country for being Christian. If you cannot accept this countries religion, then you need to go back from where you came from. I will see if I can find the quote for that later, but it is much the same as what they said.
Regarding borders, in this day and age, I agree that we must secure them to an extent. I agree that we must also try to reduce significantly the amount of illegal immigrants that are coming into this country. I agree that immigrants coming into this country, whether they are legal or illegal, need to learn English because it is key to understanding our laws and key to finding employment. But, in defense of free speech, I do not see a need for them to speak English in public when the conversation involves another who understands the language. That is as far as assimilation goes for me because then it infringes a persons public rights. Considering that this country is founded on Christian principles, it would equate me telling a mosque that they need to close their doors and stop functioning because this is America and we are christians. It would cause a ripple effect because there are many un-American things being done today in regards to language, religion, and culture. I don't see any of these as a threat to America so long as they abide by our laws, it is assimilation enough for me. The terrorist of 9/11 were mostly all in America on expired visas and the fact that many went to our schools is evidence that they spoke some english. I have not heard of a terrorist who is Mexican. If there is one, I would like to know. I have not heard of drive by shootings in Mexico, if there is been such I would like to know. I have not heard of children bombing their schools in Mexico, or shootings in schools by children on children. If there has been such I would like to know. What I do know is that our borders are used for trafficking drugs, one reason to secure them.
Assimilation in the bible was based on religion. Walls were erected based on religion (correct me if I am wrong). If the whole world were based on just one religion, there would be no need for walls or borders. Maybe borders that mark the beginning of one country or another, but laws would be the same much everywhere and there would be more assurance that foreigners understand and respect those laws. I understand that we cannot take in the whole worlds poor, a good reason to secure our borders. However, considering that we didn't do that before, and now we have 20+ illegal immigrants, in my opinion the correct and christian thing to do is to take them in (naturally there must be fines and such), learn from our lesson, and start enforcing more border security. In my opinion, what should be done with those 20+ illegal immigrants is that they should get trained to go back and fight for their country. To me, it would be a sigh of relief when Mexico fixes itself. We are one whole continent, Mexico, USA, and Canada, that we should be able to go to and fro easily. Yes, secure our borders, but let's not scorn our neighbors. Rather, let's teach them how to become like us when it come to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Take care. |
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Patriot
Site Admin
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 471
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| Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 3:35 pm Post subject: Security and illegal immigration |
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I dont believe walls were erected for anything else but security. I dont think that religion played too far into it. But I am sure there are exceptions.
I also dont care much what you speak in public. Because frankly Im not that interested in other peoples conversation. I think it is wrong for immigrants to come here and demand interpreters and that signs be posted in spanish and english. If a business decides that they want to put up a spanish sign because they cater to spanish speaking people, thats their business. But when immigrants start demanding the Government do it with tax payer money, thats wrong and should never be given into. I still think that any immigrant that comes here should be reqired to take and pass english classes. Thats why they should build a wall. If you cant control who is coming into this country you cant make them learn english.
The problem that some states are having with illegal immigrants is that they saved all of there money to pay the coyotes to get them across the border and then they make it across and they are dead broke. They have no money no job and no plan. They just wanted to make it to America. Now they are getting desperate and they apply for gov't assistance. Those people should not be given money to enable them to stay here with no job and no plan.
The fear of a terrorist coming across the southern border has nothing to do with Mexicans. The fact that so many can come across our border with out us knowing about it means that there are more than Mexicans crossing. If a muslim terrorist wanted to he could waltz right across our border with whatever he wanted strapped to his back. Who would know about it? And I would point out that a terrorists bomb does not discriminate. It will kill an illegal immigrant as soon as it would a citizen.
I would add to your comments about christianity that the reason any other religion has freedom to worship in America is because of christians. In saudi arabia you cant worship freely, add to them a majority of the muslim countries. I think because Islam keeps people in bondage and Christianity liberates people. Where Christianity flourishes so does liberty.
| Quote: | | Assimilation in the bible was based on religion. Walls were erected based on religion (correct me if I am wrong). |
Not necessarily. At one point the Jewish nation was divided into two seperate kingdoms who were at odds with one another. It was broken up into Judah and Israel. Add to that the Samaritans who were half Jew and half Gentile but still worshipped the God of Abraham. The Jews and the Samaritans despised each other.
| Quote: | | However, considering that we didn't do that before, and now we have 20+ illegal immigrants, in my opinion the correct and christian thing to do is to take them in (naturally there must be fines and such), learn from our lesson, and start enforcing more border security. |
The responsibility of the christian is to show these people no evil. But the resposibility of the government is to enforce our laws. That does mean to deport them because they dont belong here. I will say this, I have no confidence that the gov't would ever deport all the illegals here. But at the very least when they are eventually forced to enforce our laws they should deport anyone with a criminal record. Period.
As it stands now the Minutemen are building a wall without the gov'ts help. It would actually be fantastic to see the minutemen build a wall all the way across while congress sits there twittiling its collective thumbs. The plus there is that if gov't is not involved then gov't can't goof it up.
| Quote: | | We are one whole continent, Mexico, USA, and Canada, that we should be able to go to and fro easily. |
iamme I dont see us as a whole continent. I only see us as neighbors. American soldiers and Marines dont die for Mexico. They do it for America. Things and people can move freely enough already, all they have to do is come in through the front door, legally.
| Quote: | | Patriot, I have not thanked you enough either for defending my rights to free speech. |
Your welcome. Whats the point of having a discussion board if you can't discuss anything? Thats the way I see it.
Patriot |
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tweety
Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 250
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| Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Patriot, I agree. Whats the point of having a forum if freedom of speech is not allowed? Of course it should always be expressed without attacking another member. iamme is a member of a couple of those kinds of forums where only the pro-illegal point of view is allowed. How boring! No wonder she comes in here from time to time or she would die of boredom in the others. I disagree with much of what she says but I agree with her right to say it with civility. |
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iamme
Joined: 24 Jun 2006
Posts: 333
Location: TEXAS
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| Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 8:25 pm Post subject: Re: Security and illegal immigration |
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| Patriot wrote: | I dont believe walls were erected for anything else but security. I dont think that religion played too far into it. But I am sure there are exceptions.
I also dont care much what you speak in public. Because frankly Im not that interested in other peoples conversation. I think it is wrong for immigrants to come here and demand interpreters and that signs be posted in spanish and english. If a business decides that they want to put up a spanish sign because they cater to spanish speaking people, thats their business. But when immigrants start demanding the Government do it with tax payer money, thats wrong and should never be given into. I still think that any immigrant that comes here should be reqired to take and pass english classes. Thats why they should build a wall. If you cant control who is coming into this country you cant make them learn english. |
I agree. Although, as far as interpretors go, people should have a right to choose their information in whichever language they wish. However, because it is tax payers money, we can both agree it is wrong that they should take advantage of that. It would be more fair to say that if a person wants or needs an interpretor, they should pay for it out of their own pocket. Business and ads, like you said, it is their business how they choose to cater to their public. And yes, immigrants should still be required to take and pass english classes. I don't think walls will help in this aspect, but then again, I've never lived in a country with walls.
| Quote: | | The problem that some states are having with illegal immigrants is that they saved all of there money to pay the coyotes to get them across the border and then they make it across and they are dead broke. They have no money no job and no plan. They just wanted to make it to America. Now they are getting desperate and they apply for gov't assistance. Those people should not be given money to enable them to stay here with no job and no plan. |
I agree. I have come to understand this situation further. It is not fair for illegal immigrants to come and use government funded programs. One reason I have come to agree that they should not qualify for these programs. However, because it is impossible to say that we will ever be free of illegal immigrants, I do believe that there are some things we should provide like immunizations and the very least education for their children. American citizens born to illegal immigrants should still qualify for these services. I understand that it amounts to almost the same, but I'm sure we can fix the system to where the parents cannot benefit. The reason I say this is because I'm sure a mother who is in labor will not be denied services at any hospital, thus there will be a medical bill. If the child of the illegal immigrants does not qualify for medicaid and the parents are poor, more than likely the bill will go unpaid. Better to have someone pay the hospital than no one. I know it is unfair, but like I said, I do not think we will ever be free of illegal immigration. We're * if we do and we're * if we don't.
| Quote: | | The fear of a terrorist coming across the southern border has nothing to do with Mexicans. The fact that so many can come across our border with out us knowing about it means that there are more than Mexicans crossing. If a muslim terrorist wanted to he could waltz right across our border with whatever he wanted strapped to his back. Who would know about it? And I would point out that a terrorists bomb does not discriminate. It will kill an illegal immigrant as soon as it would a citizen. |
You are so right. One person suggested that we should ask for a reward for anyone who catches a terrorist. I'm sure illegal immigrants would much rather get paid a reward for catching a terrorist than having to impose on America.
| Quote: | | I would add to your comments about christianity that the reason any other religion has freedom to worship in America is because of christians. In saudi arabia you cant worship freely, add to them a majority of the muslim countries. I think because Islam keeps people in bondage and Christianity liberates people. Where Christianity flourishes so does liberty. |
Just to inform you, I am not christian. I am a non-practicing Catholic. However, during my research on our founding fathers and quotes and such, I came across a saying that Christianity is the most perfect religion. I could not agree more. I don't really care much what religion someone is, so long as they practice good and do good. However, I would like to see more people around the world accepting Christianity. We'd have less deaths and less wars and, in my opinion, less walls.
| Quote: | | Quote: | | Assimilation in the bible was based on religion. Walls were erected based on religion (correct me if I am wrong). |
Not necessarily. At one point the Jewish nation was divided into two seperate kingdoms who were at odds with one another. It was broken up into Judah and Israel. Add to that the Samaritans who were half Jew and half Gentile but still worshipped the God of Abraham. The Jews and the Samaritans despised each other. |
Thank you for the information. To be honest, I do not know much about the bible but what I have been taught. I just researched the information because I had heard as much before. Like I said, I am a non-practicing Catholic, which means I don't go to church and I see the Bible as a book of good morals from which to live by. As more evidence that the events in the Bible were really true come up, I find myself believing that some events in the Bible really happened. It's not to say that I don't have a close relationship with God. He and I are so close I have no doubt that we actually hold conversations. He keeps me in line.  I just can't bring myself to believe that God is evil. To me, he is all good and even the most horrible persons will find a place in his glory. My lack of knowledge on the Bible is one of the reasons I try not to bring in religion into a discussion. Another is because not everyone is Christian or Catholic. However, I brought these quotes up to counter Tweety on what an American and being a patriot is. Because our founding fathers said we should look to the Bible to control our government, I thought it adequate that I quote what the Bible said about the treatment of foreigners. Emphasis is that an American and a patriot would use the Bible to guide them on this issue of illegal immigration.
| Quote: | | Quote: | | However, considering that we didn't do that before, and now we have 20+ illegal immigrants, in my opinion the correct and christian thing to do is to take them in (naturally there must be fines and such), learn from our lesson, and start enforcing more border security. |
The responsibility of the christian is to show these people no evil. But the resposibility of the government is to enforce our laws. That does mean to deport them because they dont belong here. I will say this, I have no confidence that the gov't would ever deport all the illegals here. But at the very least when they are eventually forced to enforce our laws they should deport anyone with a criminal record. Period. |
Here is where we almost agree. The responsiblity of the government is to enforce our laws, yes, but they must also give a fair trial. The reason we march or the reason we side with illegal immigrants, is not because we support illegal immigration, but because we want the government to change the laws in a way where illegal immigrants are not considered criminals. I will not lie, there are some who deserve the title, but there are many more who deserve some credit. Although, yes, many use federal aids out of necessity, or they use false identity, it should be understood that they did so out of necessity. In my opinion, if they can show that they atleast have been working and trying to make a living, they should be given an opportunity. If they show that, like you said, they have no plan and are not working, then yes, they need to go. If in the event they stole an identity that harmed an American, then they need to agree that some percentage of their checks will go to that American until all harm has been undone, like child support. These are just ideas, but it is not to say that we should not secure our borders. These ideas apply for only those who are here and have established a life or have children in school. Otherwise, we're only inviting more illegal immigrants.
| Quote: | | As it stands now the Minutemen are building a wall without the gov'ts help. It would actually be fantastic to see the minutemen build a wall all the way across while congress sits there twittiling its collective thumbs. The plus there is that if gov't is not involved then gov't can't goof it up. |
It would, but the minutemen are already in controversy considering one of it's founders is being accused of taking some of the donations for the wall. All they have been able to erect is a barbed wire fence and have not, or to my knowledge, done much else besides being vigilantes. By the time they get their act straight, much of what they have succeeded in doing will be destroyed. In my opinion, I do not approve of what they are doing. It just doesn't seem right and I find it offensive, although I can understand them, but I honestly believe it is an act of hate rather than act of defense. Everyone has their own opinion, this one is just mine. If they can secure our borders, then all the more power to them, but I will not support them because instinct tells me it is wrong what they do.
| Quote: | | Quote: | | We are one whole continent, Mexico, USA, and Canada, that we should be able to go to and fro easily. |
iamme I dont see us as a whole continent. I only see us as neighbors. American soldiers and Marines dont die for Mexico. They do it for America. Things and people can move freely enough already, all they have to do is come in through the front door, legally. |
What I meant by this comment was that we should all be able to go and come to these countries legally. In other words, it should be easier for Mexico and Canada to enter America legally. I cannot understand why it is easier for countries from across the ocean to come here legally, when Mexico and Canada should have those rights reserved. It is not known how many Canadians live in America illegally because Canada is much of a mirror of America. They speak English, the majority look white (to my knowledge), and thus it is hard to tell an American from a Canadian. Canada's borders are not as highly monitored as Mexico's, thus I'm sure many a Canadian has crossed the border illegally by just saying he or she is an American citizen. It is not the same for Mexico. They look different and have a thicker accent. It is easier to spot a Mexican than a Canadian. The very fact that most illegal immigrants come from Mexico should raise a flag. It needs to be easier, in my opinion, for immigrants from Mexico to come to America. It does not mean that they should not be screened, but that there should be no discrimination based on social class. Illegal immigration from mexico would be less of a problem if immigration laws did not discriminate. We can easily secure our borders if illegal immigrants were coming from across the ocean (they come in through our airports) and if Mexican's didn't have a hard time getting legal visas. Make it easier for Mexican's to come to America legally and the only thing you'd be having to worry about in the border is real criminals, terrorists and drug smugglers, three illegal aliens that you don't want.
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| Quote: | | Patriot, I have not thanked you enough either for defending my rights to free speech. |
Your welcome. Whats the point of having a discussion board if you can't discuss anything? Thats the way I see it. |
Agreed. I'm still sorry for having caused much havoc in the other threads, though, but no one will believe how much I learn from our discussions. Maybe because I'm a little hard headed at times, but I do know when to admit when I am wrong even if it hurts my pride. I still plan on making this thread a place for discussion on other issues, but I'm feeling a little worn out at the moment. I just need a little break. Take care and once again thank you.
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tweety
Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 250
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| Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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I found this very interesting piece of information which is from government statistics.
Immigraton quotas 1991-1998 by country:
Asia had the higiest in percentage of allowed quotas at 31%
Mexico was second with a 25% quota
All other countries such as Great Britain, Ireland, etc. were around 3%
Now couple Mexico's 25% alloted quota for legal immigration into this country with the 10-20 million illegal aliens mostly from Mexico and someone please tell me how Mexico doesn't have a a fair share or more of it's citizens in this country? Yet they still complain. |
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iamme
Joined: 24 Jun 2006
Posts: 333
Location: TEXAS
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| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 12:48 am Post subject: |
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| tweety wrote: | I found this very interesting piece of information which is from government statistics.
Immigraton quotas 1991-1998 by country:
Asia had the higiest in percentage of allowed quotas at 31%
Mexico was second with a 25% quota
All other countries such as Great Britain, Ireland, etc. were around 3%
Now couple Mexico's 25% alloted quota for legal immigration into this country with the 10-20 million illegal aliens mostly from Mexico and someone please tell me how Mexico doesn't have a a fair share or more of it's citizens in this country? Yet they still complain. |
Tweety, I am sorry that I didn't see your response on the 10 commandments. The only thing I can say is that the 10 commandments were there for us to follow, not to judge other on whether they followed them or not. "Let he who is free of sin cast the first stone" I believe were the exact words Jesus used.
On the 25% quota, well, it sounds fair, but that was not what I was referring to. I'm sure that the 25% quota is reserved for the upper class citizens of Mexico. Immigration laws discriminate based on social class. It is not the same for a poor Mexican as it is for a rich Mexican. I can testify on that, as my husband and I were discriminated based on our social class. Here is a link where they talk about as much:
http://www.latinosforamerica.com/node/view/270
On another link, I also found that it is easier for a Canadian to enter the US. All they have to do is apply at a port of entry and pay $10, where as a Mexican has to go to an embassy, get screened, and pay $150. This is just for a tourist visa, I believe. I wonder what the quota is for Canadians. I will look that up later. Yet, even on a tourist visa, a Mexican can only get one if they are well to do economically or if they have a relative. Actually, I believe to have read that it is much the same for all legal entry from Mexico to US. You have to be well to do, a company has to sponsor you, or you must have a relative who is a citizen. I will relate more later if I can. Take care. |
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tweety
Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 250
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| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 9:24 am Post subject: |
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Well our government has the right to pick and choose who they want in this country and who they do not. If this is discrimination, then so be it. Every country has the right to do as they want in regards to the issue of immigration. They also have a right to say how hard or how easy they will make it for any given country's citizens to enter legally.
I can look up the stats again but most all other countries than Asia and Mexico had much smaller alloted quotas for immigration. Most were around the 3% area. I will look up Canada again.
As far as the ten commandments go, much of the morality of them was built into our laws too, such as thou shalt not steal. It is foolish to say that if one or any American citizen breaks these laws then all foreigners should automatically be allowed to break them based on that and that we should look the other way. Everyone whether native or foreigner should pay for their crimes. |
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iamme
Joined: 24 Jun 2006
Posts: 333
Location: TEXAS
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| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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| tweety wrote: | | Well our government has the right to pick and choose who they want in this country and who they do not. If this is discrimination, then so be it. Every country has the right to do as they want in regards to the issue of immigration. They also have a right to say how hard or how easy they will make it for any given country's citizens to enter legally. |
In a sense, you are right. But that is why we protest, so that we can have our voices heard and hope that they can pass a bill or a law that is not so harsh. However, it is still unfair as many families have been unjustly seperated in the past, and their voices are being heard now. They want to be able to bring their families together, because the discrimination in the past has forced many to become seperated. Just because a country has the rights in regards to immigration doesn't mean that they can treat people inhumanely. They can, but we also have the right (in America) to protest against such treatment.
| Quote: | | As far as the ten commandments go, much of the morality of them was built into our laws too, such as thou shalt not steal. It is foolish to say that if one or any American citizen breaks these laws then all foreigners should automatically be allowed to break them based on that and that we should look the other way. Everyone whether native or foreigner should pay for their crimes. |
The diffence between an illegal immigrant and an American citizen, is that an American citizen should have no reason to be using false documentation or stealing identities. They already have their own, so why steal someone elses? On the other hand, illegal immigrants have a reason to use false documentation or steal identities (I'm not saying it is right) and that is because technically they don't have one and they need one to work. One is not understandable, the other is. It is why we want these charges overlooked. Unless it has affected someone personally (i.e. the ss# belonged to them and now they have to pay back taxes) then I still feel there are other approaches we can take. They can pay back those taxes. To me, if the documents are used to work, and does not involve stealing money from a bank, or ordering stuff and such, then, on illegal immigrants, it should be overlooked with a fine. It is not to say that the laws in other regards shouldn't be overlooked. If they are stealing money, or stealing from homes, then the laws should apply. But I just don't think that illegal immigrants are criminals based on the fact that they entered illegally to work and used false or stolen identities for that purpose. I know that one could argue that they use our government services, but it is because many are hampered by their status. How can one make progress when one is tied down? Many of the illegal immigrants of the past were just barely getting out of the poverty level and now are getting pushed back into it. It has happened before and that is why we are where we are and frankly, to me, that is unfair. |
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tweety
Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 250
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| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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There is no excuse for what illegal aliens do. If an American steals someone else's identity they will serve prison time for a felony. But I guess not with the illegals.
They have no right to be marching in our streets. They don't have a right to live here, work here or be here.
If an alien becomes separated from his family, he or she has made that choice on their own to leave them behind.
We owe the illegal nor his family nothing nor should we.
Come legally to this country or don't come. If they decide otherwise then don't expect us to bend the rules for them and grant them amnesty for violating our immigration laws. There is no justification for any of this behavior. |
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iamme
Joined: 24 Jun 2006
Posts: 333
Location: TEXAS
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| Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 12:25 am Post subject: |
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| tweety wrote: | | There is no excuse for what illegal aliens do. If an American steals someone else's identity they will serve prison time for a felony. But I guess not with the illegals. |
Excuses, there are plenty. Exceptions by law, are another. It is the same for illegals, but the laws have been slow to enforce.
| Quote: | | They have no right to be marching in our streets. They don't have a right to live here, work here or be here. |
The do have a right to march in our streets, they are called human rights. They don't have a right to live, work, or be here but they do have the right be heard.
| Quote: | | If an alien becomes separated from his family, he or she has made that choice on their own to leave them behind. |
That is not what I was talking about. I was talking about Operation Wetback and Mexican Repartrition in which many illegal, legal, and American Hispanics were unjustly deported for looking Mexican. The paranoia of then is the echo of what we are hearing today. American's were afraid of terrorist and Mexican's were to blame.
| Quote: | | We owe the illegal nor his family nothing nor should we. |
To each their own. I for one owe every human being the respect for their basic human rights and believe that that's the way it should always be.
| Quote: | | Come legally to this country or don't come. If they decide otherwise then don't expect us to bend the rules for them and grant them amnesty for violating our immigration laws. There is no justification for any of this behavior. |
If only it were that easy. I only hope that one day you don't find yourself in their shoes. Take care. |
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tweety
Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 250
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| Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 10:59 am Post subject: |
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| iamme wrote: | | tweety wrote: | | There is no excuse for what illegal aliens do. If an American steals someone else's identity they will serve prison time for a felony. But I guess not with the illegals. |
Excuses, there are plenty. Exceptions by law, are another. It is the same for illegals, but the laws have been slow to enforce.
| Quote: | | They have no right to be marching in our streets. They don't have a right to live here, work here or be here. |
The do have a right to march in our streets, they are called human rights. They don't have a right to live, work, or be here but they do have the right be heard.
| Quote: | | If an alien becomes separated from his family, he or she has made that choice on their own to leave them behind. |
That is not what I was talking about. I was talking about Operation Wetback and Mexican Repartrition in which many illegal, legal, and American Hispanics were unjustly deported for looking Mexican. The paranoia of then is the echo of what we are hearing today. American's were afraid of terrorist and Mexican's were to blame.
| Quote: | | We owe the illegal nor his family nothing nor should we. |
To each their own. I for one owe every human being the respect for their basic human rights and believe that that's the way it should always be.
| Quote: | | Come legally to this country or don't come. If they decide otherwise then don't expect us to bend the rules for them and grant them amnesty for violating our immigration laws. There is no justification for any of this behavior. |
If only it were that easy. I only hope that one day you don't find yourself in their shoes. Take care. |
There isn't and shouldn't be exceptions for any group of people where felonies are involved. Why should there be? You think that would be fair? I haven't seen anything in our Constitution that says it is a basic human right for an illegal alien to march in our streets protesting.
Operation Wetback, here we go again with the past. It has nothing to do with the way Americans feel about legal Hispanics today. It is all about illegal aliens. You just don't get the difference, do you? Here comes that same old lie again too. We are not accusing peasant Mexicans coming here illegally to look for work as being terrorists! Would you all get that thru your thick skull? It is the OTM's from known terrorist countries coming in along with the Mexicans that we are afraid of. Got that yet?
Again, illegal aliens ARE afforded basic human rights in this country. The thing is that you that you that are sympathetic towards them want them to have the same rights as citizens or their rights to go further than plain old basic human rights. That is just plain wrong!
Don't worry I will never find myself in their shoes. I respect every country's soveirgn right to have borders and immigration laws. If I were poor and destitute I would stay in my own country and fight to fix it. Most Mexicans are not starving in Mexico, they simply live in poverty and its their lack of courage to change anything that keeps them that way. |
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butterbean
Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 2271
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| Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | iamme:
In a sense, you are right. But that is why we protest, so that we can have our voices heard and hope that they can pass a bill or a law that is not so harsh. However, it is still unfair as many families have been unjustly seperated in the past, and their voices are being heard now. They want to be able to bring their families together, because the discrimination in the past has forced many to become seperated. Just because a country has the rights in regards to immigration doesn't mean that they can treat people inhumanely. They can, but we also have the right (in America) to protest against such treatment.
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They entered the country illegally and they chose to be seperated from their families when they chose to commit a felony by sneaking over the border. This has nothing to do with discrimination. The simple fact is that these people came here without legal papers. In other words, they imposed themselves on us, and we dont have the means to support them.
America doesnt give illegal immigrants rights to protest anthing.
I will say iamme, that I have suspected you to be an illegal alien all along. You come up with quotes from websites you just surfed, and quotes from the Bible. But you really dont make any sense at all.
As you can see, I dropped arguing with you a week or 2 ago. I just cant stand your holier than thou attitude. You act like an you know everything, when basically you know absolutely nothing. I think you are scared, because you are losing your battle. I really think you would be happier at another site. You claim you were never banned from any sites. I doubt that very much. As a matter of fact, some of the websites you mentioned would chew you up and spit you out. Please feel free to leave. Es Una lATIMA. Adios. |
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tweety
Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 250
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| Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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Butterbean, just to clarify something for you. It is not a felony to cross our borders illegally, it is only a misdemeanor. Although I think it should be a felony.
The thing is that many of these illegals after committing that first misdemeanor, then go on to committing the felony of forging documents, and stealing ID's and SS numbers and income tax evasion once here.
Some commit even more serious crimes once here but I would believe that most do not.
The thing is we have enough of our own criminals to deal with, we sure don't need to import more, especially those who shouldn't even be here in the first place. |
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iamme
Joined: 24 Jun 2006
Posts: 333
Location: TEXAS
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| Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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| tweety wrote: |
There isn't and shouldn't be exceptions for any group of people where felonies are involved. Why should there be? You think that would be fair? I haven't seen anything in our Constitution that says it is a basic human right for an illegal alien to march in our streets protesting. |
It is called the freedom of expression which includes speech, media, and public assembly (protest/marches). It's also called Human Rights for the people, or civil rights for Americans.
| Quote: | | Operation Wetback, here we go again with the past. It has nothing to do with the way Americans feel about legal Hispanics today. It is all about illegal aliens. You just don't get the difference, do you? Here comes that same old lie again too. We are not accusing peasant Mexicans coming here illegally to look for work as being terrorists! Would you all get that thru your thick skull? It is the OTM's from known terrorist countries coming in along with the Mexicans that we are afraid of. Got that yet? |
Tweety, I’m sorry to put it to you this way, but you’re falling back on the “it’s all about illegal aliens” excuse. Sorry, but you have never implied that much before, so why now? It has to do with Hispanics in general, legal and illegal, not just illegal aliens, or why else would you imply that Hispanics are trying to change America into a third world country? Why do you take such offense on the use of the Spanish language out in main stream? I’ve always spoken Spanish and I’m not an illegal alien. My grandparents and some of my relatives speak Spanish only, very, very limited English, and they are not illegal aliens. Operation Wetback might have nothing to do with the way American’s feel about legal Hispanics today, but the same thing is happening now as it did then. It all started with a fear of terrorist and wanting secure borders, to trying to enforce English only, to the deportation of Hispanics, legal and illegal. Remember the saying “If we don’t learn from the past then we are doomed to repeat it”? It’s almost as if you want to repeat it by not recognizing it. In any event, it all resulted in more illegal immigration. Every attempt to secure the borders has always resulted in more illegal immigration. I don’t see the events of today leading to much but the same old same old.
| Quote: | | Again, illegal aliens ARE afforded basic human rights in this country. The thing is that you that you that are sympathetic towards them want them to have the same rights as citizens or their rights to go further than plain old basic human rights. That is just plain wrong! |
Like I said in another post to you, it’s been said before but the oppressed have always come out winning. There might be a battle to the end, but good ALWAYS overcomes evil. American’s have fought to afford African-Americans and women rights. American’s will fight to afford illegal immigrant rights. Today, you might be right that they have broken some laws, but tomorrow our voices will expunge the laws so that they recognize illegal immigrants as what they are, humans attempting to make a better life for themselves.
| Quote: | | Don't worry I will never find myself in their shoes. I respect every country's soveirgn right to have borders and immigration laws. If I were poor and destitute I would stay in my own country and fight to fix it. Most Mexicans are not starving in Mexico, they simply live in poverty and its their lack of courage to change anything that keeps them that way. |
I can only hope you are right as, like I said, I would never wish what I have gone through on anyone. I’m sure you would stay and fight, but for how long and to what expense? There are many Mexican’s in Mexico involved in deadly riots trying to fix their government. They are out there with machetes, and picks and axes, going against their own law enforcement officials who are better armed than they. How much do you think they can accomplish, when they are silenced with death? How can you alone, change a corrupt government that silences every hope with a bullet? I don’t know if you have children, but how much would you be willing to suffer the injustice that they might one day have to face in a corrupt government? Would you prefer to die defending a country that will cannot be saved any time soon, knowing that your children will be left behind to fend for themselves in a corrupt government, more than likely have to resort to selling drugs, prostitution, theft, etc.? I’ve heard reports, how true they are I would not know, but reports that state American’ are leaving cities because of the influx of illegal immigration. I wonder what they would do if each state had it’s own border, and it was illegal to cross those borders? Even you imply on a fear of America becoming a Spanish speaking country and fear the Hispanization we can bring. What would you do if it does end up being a Spanish speaking country? Even you stated that you would NEVER speak or attempt to learn Spanish. The very fact that Mexicans have risked their lives crossing the border shows not only how courageous they are, but how smart they are as well. They have a better chance of making a better life for themselves crossing the border than they would standing up to a corrupt government in Mexico. |
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